Too many stats spoil the broth
by Derek AmbrosinoFebruary 22, 2013
Derek Ambrosino aspires to one day, like Dan Quisenberry, find a delivery in his flaw, you can send him questions, comments, or suggestions at digglahhh AT yahoo DOT com.
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May 19, 2013
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Too many stats spoil the brothby Derek AmbrosinoFebruary 22, 2013 Derek Ambrosino aspires to one day, like Dan Quisenberry, find a delivery in his flaw, you can send him questions, comments, or suggestions at digglahhh AT yahoo DOT com. Comments
Greg Simons said...
Kyle, I’m in a standard 5x5, which I prefer, so take these off-the-cuff comments with that background. On the hitting side, I’d get rid of 1B and BB since you have OBP, and I’d combine 2B and 3B into 2B+3B. That leaves nine hitting categories. On the pitching side, I’d dump CG (too rare) and either K or K/9 (somewhat redundant). Also, either get rid of HR allowed or convert it to HR/9 (to help balance rate and counting stats) and combine W and L into W-L. Posted 02/22 at 08:17 AM
Brad Johnson said...
The categories aren’t really the problem (some are, like using H, type of H, and AVG, but that’s easily fixed). The glaring problem is that this is a Points league scoring system wearing rotisserie clothes. If you’re going beyond a 6x6 or maybe 7x7 (that’s pushing it), you NEED to use a points format rather than roto. The league is ruined otherwise. Posted 02/22 at 08:48 AM
Brad Johnson said...
Kyle/reader, In your 12x12 leagues are the overall winners of hitting and pitching categories those who accrued the most PA or IP? I ask because a 5x5 league already puts heavy emphasis on the team with the most playing time. I would guess that a 12x12 format would quadruple that influence (or more). Especially because so many counting stats were used. Posted 02/22 at 08:52 AM
Kyle Brown said...
Actually, because it’s H2H the matchups each week are a give-take. If you get blown up early you have to make a decision about whether or not you are gonna punt the ratio categories and go for the counting stats. Conversely, if you get the ratios nailed down you might try to limit your innings. On top of all that you have to monitor and adapt to what your opponent is doing so on a week to week basis there hasn’t been a trend. Those who have won have focused on acquiring pitching. But to be fair the winners have always had balanced teams, and we have waivers so adding PA is difficult. There is certainly a good bit of streaming in the league. Posted 02/22 at 09:16 AM
Brandon said...
Kyle, I think having stats like 3B and CG diminish other stats. You can certainly win each of those categories 1-0 some weeks and it has no correlation to how well your team performed. You also have 3 categories that are benefited by a strikeout (not including IP, ERA, and WHIP which also benefit). I think trimming some of the categories would be a good idea. Posted 02/22 at 11:21 AM
Kyle Brown said...
Is it crazy of my to think that sometimes winning a category 1-0 in a given week is actually a benefit of the system? I see what you are all saying, of course, it doesn’t correlate and all that, but it does add drama to the matchup without really affecting the overall outcome of who makes the playoffs and who misses out. For example, if in a given week you’re going to lose 10-11 to someone and you only have one hitter left on Sunday and the only category you could even the matchup with is triples it makes your experience on that Sunday much richer. Whether or not you even the score isn’t going to have much impact on the season standings so what’s the harm if it adds to the experience? That’s at least why I like them, as crazy and as flawed as it may sound. Posted 02/22 at 12:48 PM
David said...
I don’t like your proposed 7X7 categories - too many ratios. I like counting stats better, because I can read the ticker at the bottom of the tv, and see how my team is doing. Also, I like stats like W and RBI that are dependent on a player’s team around him. That’s a fun part of the decision making process. Remember, you’re not playing baseball, you’re playing fantasy baseball. Kyle had a couple points I really agree with. Posted 02/22 at 01:29 PM
Zipple41 said...
“Oh no! I lost this week because my guy hit a stupid homerun instead of a single!” This should never be a possibility… Posted 02/22 at 02:50 PM
chongo said...
We have a H2H 8x8. H, 2B, HR, RBI, R, BB, S, A; W, QS, H/9, K, S+H, IP, ER, and BB. Only one ratio- it has played very nice having just counting stats. The A is for Assists, which favors (and attempts to balance) some positions over others- just like other batting stats. Worked so far. Posted 02/22 at 06:19 PM
Brian said...
We run a league with avg, obp, slg, HR, TB, SB, K, R and RBI for hitters. Pitching is W, L, QS, K, K/BB, BAA, ERA and WHIP and S+H. In a perfect world, I would gladly replace TB with 2B+3B, hitter K’s with BB/K ratio, and W and L with Net wins, but I have yet to find a website with these categories. Posted 02/22 at 06:37 PM
chuck said...
why not r-hr and rbi-hr? then, you remove the double dip of the hr. also, total bases may be good to replace all of the hits catagories. quality starts is weak. i could go 6 innings but give up 10 runs because my bullppen is taxed and still get bonus cuz of my innings? doesnt make sense. fielding percentage or some kind of range stat might be interesting to include in the pitching stats since they correlate. Posted 02/25 at 12:26 PM
Jason B said...
Re: Chuck - “quality starts is weak. i could go 6 innings but give up 10 runs because my bullppen is taxed and still get bonus cuz of my innings?” That’s not a quality start. Any start w/ 6+ innings is not automatically a QS. (Not saying it’s a particularly good category either, just that your example is not a relevant one.) Posted 02/25 at 03:04 PM
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I run a 12x12 league that has twelve managers. The stats are: runs, RBI, 1b, 2b, 3b, hr, bb, k, avg, obp, slg, SB…..IP, W, L, CG, hr(against), k, k/bb, k/9, era, whip, qs, saves.
I think this set of 12 and 12 is better than the league in question, but it does have its flaws. W and L (and CG) are definitely bad stats but it also seems like a similar situation to runs and RBI being tied to lineup, i.e. W and L are helped or hurt by the team that a pitcher plays for, so I find it acceptable. The league is a H2H league and CG, W and L can provide some fun in that regard, I always find myself glued to the results of MLB games on each Sunday because I might score a win/loss/CG, albeit undeserved or randomly placed in the season. This goes against your fundamental idea that stats in fantasy should correlate to stats in baseball that express the ways baseball players actually help teams win baseball games. I would challenge that idea, if only slightly. I also want to give due credit to legit accomplishments but don’t want to lose out on some element of randomness. Randomness is an element of real baseball and sometimes an OF slips or a defensive shift opens a hole that would not have “normally” been open and David Ortiz gets a double by hitting a weak ball down the 3rd baseline. My point is that, you try to set your team up, in real an fantasy baseball, to try and have the best chance to win your league. I try to find the best pitchers out there and hope they get wins when they deserve it and avoid losses when they pitch well, but sometimes that just doesn’t happen. I am willing to allow some stats in my league’s matrix that are going to be a touch random because this randomness can lead to extremely fun times, feast or famine.
As long as stats don’t overlap and randomness isn’t overly rewarded I think that some stats that don’t express achievements that help teams win baseball games are ok. This of course comes down to the reasons one plays fantasy baseball and I don’t think that there is a definitive answer to the question: is there a correct motivation for playing fantasy sports or are all perspectives created equal?
Anyway, I went on a tangent there. Are my leagues stats bad as well or are we doing a decent job?
Thanks,
Kyle