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Shyster's Daily Circuit


Baseball. Blogging. Whenever.

Tuesday, October 20, 2009

Death threats and precedents

The Mariano Rivera stuff obviously struck a nerve today. For what it's worth, I stand by my posts on it, both here and at NBC. There was a video that showed something interesting. I raised some questions about it and doubted whether simply saying "Mariano would never do such a thing" was enough to put the kibosh on the inquiry. I qualified everything I said with statements about how the video was not conclusive and how better angles would be needed before something conclusive could be said. If there was an actual accusation in my comments somewhere, someone will have to point it out to me. MLB at least felt it necessary to take a quick look. When they did and weighed in later, I posted an update quite quickly. All in a day's bloggy work.

But clearly not everyone agrees. Question: was it illegitimate to post links to the video and ask the questions I asked in the first place? I don't think so, but I'm curious for your thoughts. Not about Mariano -- that's over, and I'm quite content to accept MLB's view on it, especially in light of the still photos that appeared later in the day. I want to know whether it was wrong to even raise the issue in the first place, and if so, why so. The one reason people cited over and over today -- that it was Mariano Rivera we're talking about here, and he's not worthy of accusation -- doesn't convince me. If we had a picture of Mother Teresa raising a baseball bat over the head of a cowering man, would we not ask what was happening? The problem, it seems, only comes if you (a) immediately jump to a conclusion that she's beating the guy without acknowledging that more could be going on that first meets the eye; or (b) disregard actual, later evidence which debunks the first impression created by the picture.

Two things lead me to ask these questions. First is the fact that I got a freakin' death threat over all of this. It's been deleted, but a commenter at NBC, after multiple posts in which he wished for me to die of horrible diseases, finally came out and said that he hoped someone killed me. Hey-o! I'm used to the Yankee nonsense I willingly stir up over there turning ugly, but this was beyond even my comfort level. There's no need to tell me that was uncalled for -- believe me, I know it -- but was this merely a moron at work, or was the post (which was nearly identical to the post below here) beyond my usual taunting? I honestly want your opinion.

The second, and more substantial reason I ask is because I'm reminded of the Kenny Rogers affair from three years ago. You'll recall that cameras captured some schmutz on Rogers' hand. It disappeared an inning or two later. It was quickly looked into and then dismissed by MLB. In all of that, it was much like today's business. The difference: Mariano Rivera has a better reputation than Kenny Rogers, and no one thought to say that Kenny Rogers was above such questions.

Was it legitimate to raise questions about Rogers and not Mariano? Was it legitimate or illegitimate for both? What are the rules here? Like I said, I think my posts were within the realm of the acceptable but obviously others disagree. Even those who don't want me dead.

If you're all tired of this, move along. There's baseball happening. If not, though, I think it might be a worthy conversation to have in the comments.

Posted by Craig Calcaterra at 4:36pm


Comments

Michael said...

Some people really need to consider their actions. The frickin’ Yankees aren’t worth wishing someone dead. Hopefully the cops can investigate and let Mr. Anonymous Death Threat Dude know that what he did is actually not “just talkin’,” but a crime.

And spitballs have been thrown by better pitchers than Mariano Rivera - something that might have been on his mind if he HAS tried it.

Posted 10/20  at  04:54 PM
JackisBack said...

Well thats unfortunate that you received death threats over this.  I don’t think it was out of line that you brought it up, at first glance it does look like he’s spitting on the ball, but that seems more a folly of the camera angle as its hard to pick up the spit going past the baseball in that shot.  But to bring it up, was legitimate in my opinion. I’m sure most people would’ve swore A-Rod never did steroids, and look what happened.  Rivera is a great player, and a great person, but he’s not a saint, he’s human.

Although I think there is a distinct difference from the Rogers to Rivera situation in that with Rogers we had indisputable evidence that there was something it, it was there to be seen by multiple angles.  In Rivera’s case, there was only one short view of it, which as you said has been somewhat debunked by pictures later anyway. 

This might be the most analyzed spit in the history of saliva.

Posted 10/20  at  04:58 PM
Bob Timmermann said...

So is NBC banning the IP address of the guy making the threat? I know it’s not much, but they should at least do that for you.

Posted 10/20  at  05:02 PM
Bill B. said...

Craig,

The #1 reason why blogs are important: questions get asked. Bloggers mostly don’t have ties to corporations or extremely important people, so there are very few instances of conflicts of interest. As a result, questions that need to get asked, as you did today.

It’s telling that a blog (I believe it was an Angels blog) started this whole fiasco, and then the mainstream media picked up on it. Of course Yankees beat writers or TV analysts, or what have you, are not going to raise the question because they want to have the privilege of getting quotes from Mo on a daily basis for years down the road. They wouldn’t jeopardize that relationship over something as inconclusive as what was posted on that blog.

The day bloggers stop asking the questions the professional journalists won’t is the day blogs become obsolete.

Keep on doing what you’re doing, Craig.

Posted 10/20  at  05:04 PM
Mode:Theif and Lair said...

This is what I believe.

It’s totally legit that you pointed out the video.

My issue was that I felt you were arguing for the prosecution based on the Q&A you posted. So I felt like you were doing “a).”

I think you should have been able to bring up that the lenses that are used not only could make it look like he spit on the ball, but (if you didn’t know better by logic) his hand comes out of his belly button and he can touch the railing along the left field line.

It is legitamate to raise questions for both, but again it felt to me that you cited more arguments for the prosecution than the defense.

That’s your perogative, and I am a Yankee fan so I will be more sensitive to this.  If it were Papelbon I wouldn’t be defnding him, but I would have doubted he did it.  But, I read your stuff as if you are a baseball fan first, and hold you to a higher standard than a team based blog.

And, as much as I (tried to) take you to task on this, I really enjoy your work and look forward to your posts.

Posted 10/20  at  05:08 PM
Yair said...

Totally legit post and question. Really scary that someone threatened you over it. The only critique I would have had was that your question “is this the secret to Rivera’s cutter” had a Selena Roberts’-esque sensationalist feel to it - undeserved given the actual evidence at hand and the presumption of innocence we accord to all. But that’s a quibble. Keep doing what you’ve been doing!

Posted 10/20  at  05:08 PM
DonCoburleone said...

When is everyone going to wake up and realize that players over the age of 37 (or really even 35+) who still dominate their sport need to be viewed with skepticism?  Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman, Brett Favre, Lance Armstrong - these guys SHOULD have their (recent) accomplishments questioned because guess what? Men in their upper 30’s and early 40’s that can compete athletically at a higher level than men in their 20’s is not natural! Things break down more easily, recovery takes longer, vision diminishes, flexibility lessens. 

Now I’M NOT saying that all these guys are cheating (one way or the other), but to just assume they are doing everything on the up-and-up just because they’ve never been caught is foolish.

Posted 10/20  at  05:10 PM
Jack Marshall said...

Craig, you handled this issue exactly correctly. Let us remember that the Bernie Madoff scandal went on unimpeded because he had such an impeccable reputation that the SEC simply glossed over, ignored or rationalized warning signs that would have had anyone else on the carpet. Rivera’s reputation should afford him no presumptions at all when evidence surfaces suggesting that further investigation is warranted to confirm or refute suspicions of cheating. Yes: in the absence of unambiguous evidence, reputation enters into the equation; if Don Sutton was doing the spitting, I’d be less concerned about the camera angle. But raising the issue? No controversy here at all: you have an obligation to raise it, and MLB has an obligation to settle the issue to the extent that it can.

Unfortunately, MLB has squandered its own credibility and reputation for integrity, but that’s not your problem. The video raised an important question about the the integrity of the game, and thank you for being among those who didn’t look the other way.

Posted 10/20  at  05:13 PM
Mode:Theif and Lair said...

I was going to point out my spelling mistakes, but there are too many.  Huge grammar fail on my part.

Posted 10/20  at  05:15 PM
Craig Calcaterra said...

Bob—yes. No question about it. They’re very cool about that kind of stuff.  No complaints about NBC. Just some of the commenters.

Everyone else: good points all. Yeah, the “secret to the cutter” line was kind of a Roberts thing, wasn’t it?  I figured that since this wasn’t exactly criminal it was OK to play a bit, but I appreciate that the distinction between what Roberts riffs on and my little riff here was of degree, not of kind.  Fair enough.

Posted 10/20  at  05:16 PM
Moshe Mandel said...

Disclaimer: Yankee fan here.

Craig, I love your work, and pretty much always agree with you, but today I found that your writing was not evenhanded. Bringing it up was fine (although many Yankees blogs chose not to give credence to Halos Heaven, well known among those who frequent SBNation as a bunch of kooks), but as mentioned above, you brought it up and then argued for the prosecution when all there was was one very unclear video. I have seen a large chunk of Mo’s career, and he does a ton of spitting on the ground. Seeing a player spit near the ball and arguing fairly strongly that it means that the player (particularly this player) cheated seemed incongruous with your typical work, almost as if you were relishing the controversy.

Posted 10/20  at  05:17 PM
Craig Calcaterra said...

Fair enough.  Like I said above (or in another thread; I’m a little punchy) I am predisposed to argue against the tide, and when I added the Q&A the tide was decidedly “it’s ridiculous to even question the great Mariano!”  That grinds my gears, so I figured I’d challenge the presumption a bit.  I’m sure you’ve had law professors do the same.

I always thought they were being jackasses, though. I stand by my posts, but I was probably being a bit of jackass too.

Posted 10/20  at  05:24 PM
Mode:Theif and Lair said...

DonCoburleone, there was a time people were expected to be dead at 40 years old.  It’s called evolution.  At age 42 in 1929 Jim Thorpe played football.  Also, call Jack LaLanne he’ll tell you about it.

Posted 10/20  at  05:29 PM
DonCoburleone said...

Theif and Lair was Jim Thorpe the best player in the league in 1929?  NO!  I’m talking about guys who are still in the discussion for being the best in the world at what they do (as professional athletes, not talking 38+ year old businessmen or authors or anything like that). We SHOULD view anything that those 38+ athletes do with greater scrutiny than anyone else. Why is that such a terrible thing to say?

Posted 10/20  at  05:42 PM
YankeesfanLen said...

Almost have a hard time catagorizing my thoughts on this.
I am known by all my friends and acquaintances as a pretty good (maybe borderline great) Yankees fan.  A few years ago they were maybe 15 games under 500 and I wouldn’t give in at the All Star Break, then they made the playoffs (although not too far). Obviously, given where I live, I come in contact with many fans of the NL team across the river and we tease each other. All summer long I have restrained myself from pointing out their obvious “challenges”, normally something that would be done in good fun.
This death threat bulls##t goes too far-we have fun over here (secret handshakes) but the people “over there” have you burning the Puerto Rican flag (unintentionally of course). THAT WAS ONE BIG LOOGY you threw out today,, I anticipated a fun time today because statements should draw intelligent arguments.  You did not cross the line, but you shouldn’t have been in that neighborhood, because the inhabitants are not rational.
Please don’t let this ugly incident dissuade you from uncovering amusing things about our chosen sport. I almost can’t believe I said this morning at ATH about some topics being for mature audiences only.
Let me know if you need the guys from Hoboken

Posted 10/20  at  05:46 PM
Mode:Theif and Lair said...

DC:
I wouldn’t say terrible, but I just didn’t like that you are pointing out guys and insinuating that they are doing something illegal/unethical without more than “They are old, they shouldn’t be that good” as your “proof”.

Don’t like Jim Thorpe or Jack LaLanne, that’s cool. How about these:

Nolan Ryan age 42 1989 300 Ks (I seem to remember a no hitter after 40 as well)
Tom Seaver age 40 1985 16 wins 3.17 ERA
Satchel Paige 45 1952 3.17 ERA

I’m not saying that the guys you mention definately didn’t do PEDs (except Mo obviously).  But saying they’re too old to be on top of their game doesn’t do it for me.

Posted 10/20  at  06:03 PM
Ber said...

Is this really the first internet death-threat you’ve received? Those are what I “love” most about anonymous internet tough-guy commenting.

Doesn’t it say somewhere in the Bible that someone who publicly questions god should be put to death?

Posted 10/20  at  06:03 PM
Craig Calcaterra said...

First one I took seriously. I’ve gotten a lot of “oh, go die in a fire” or “take a long walk off a short pier” stuff before.  This guy made four or five posts in which he said that he hoped I’d die of AIDS, cancer, etc., and then topped it off with one that said “Craig, I hope someone kills you.”

I suppose I could parse that to make it more aspirational and less of an action plan, but at some point you have to take the broad view of things.

Posted 10/20  at  06:08 PM
Frank said...

I personally just feel like blogs, news reporters, etc. jumped on this a little too soon.  Everyone just should have waited a little longer to see if there was anything to it.  I mean, there was no real precedent to think Mo was doing anything illegal.  If it was true, then by all means drop the hammer.  But I think it was a little soon to be making news out of it.  Especially since it was an Angels blog that most of the accusations were being backed up on.  Expected better I guess.  That’s all.

Posted 10/20  at  06:09 PM
Michael said...

Craig, never forget that it’s most definitely NOT your job to be “even-handed.”

You’re not a news reporter, and if you were, you wouldn’t have as many readers, because news is easily single-sourced.

Opinions and ideas are important. Don’t disguise them as news (we’ve seen what problems dressing up opinion as “fair and balanced” causes), but don’t suppress them either.

Posted 10/20  at  06:09 PM
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