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Shyster's Daily Circuit


Baseball. Blogging. Whenever.

Tuesday, June 02, 2009

Is David Ortiz simply old?

Bill Simmons has a theory on David Ortiz. I think it makes more sense than the PED-withdrawal thing people have been muttering about:

How many Latin players have been exposed for lying about their ages in the past few years? Hell, one of Papi's best friends -- Tejada -- was found to have cut two years off his birth certificate when he was 17, er, 19 … you get the point. Watching Papi flounder now, I'd believe he's really 36 or 37 (not 33) before I'd believe PEDs are responsible. In a recent game in Minnesota, he couldn't catch up to an 89 mph fastball. Repeat: 89 mph!

That's what happens to beefy sluggers on their way out: Their knees go, they stiffen up, bat speed slows and, in the blink of an eye, they're done. Beefy sluggers are like porn stars, wrestlers, NBA centers and trophy wives: When it goes, it goes. You know right away.

So that's my theory. I think he's old(er). You may think something else. Whatever the case, it's clear that David Ortiz no longer excels at baseball.

I still won't rule out some weird injury, and whether he's truly injured or not, I bet he spends a loooong stretch on the DL this year if for no other reason than they need to do something with him.

But it could easily be age. A lot of guys simply fall off a cliff at a certain age, and perhaps Ortiz finally just made it to the cliff.

Posted by Craig Calcaterra at 2:10pm


Comments

tadthebad said...

This conversation has been going on Boston sports talk radio since the season began.  I happen to agree with Simmons here.

Posted 06/02  at  02:15 PM
Wooden U Lykteneau said...

I can’t find it here, but I’ve been accusing Ortiz of being a bit “Smiley” for at least a month

Posted 06/02  at  02:18 PM
Jack said...

This guy posted the highest OPS of his career in 2007.  Has anyone completely lost it THAT fast? I know some players “fall off the cliff”, but Ortiz has taken it to a new level.

Posted 06/02  at  03:10 PM
J.W. said...

Good to have an unbiased writer like Simmons on the case. But seriously, these things have a way of coming out, and Ortiz has been under more scrutiny than Tejada for many years now, so it seems unlikely that Papi could have kept it hidden for so long. (And yes, I realize this isn’t exactly an airtight argument; a lot of things are kept 100% hidden until, well, until they’re not hidden any more [see: Rodriguez, Alex or Ramirez, Manny].) But really, it isn’t too much of a stretch to believe that 33 would actually be the age at which Ortiz falls off the proverbial cliff. I believe it’s often been said that out of shape left handed power hitters who don’t hit for average rarely age well. Look at Travis Hafner. Sure he’s had injury woes, but for all we know Papi is also suffering from an assortment of ailments that really weigh his already weighty body down. He doesn’t have to be 37 to miss 89 MPH fastballs, just an old 33. And extra bodyweight and a lack of a good fitness regime are two things that will go a long way to making you an old version of any age.

Posted 06/02  at  03:15 PM
Craig Calcaterra said...

Dale Murphy, 1987: 295/.417/.580, highest career OPS and OPS+, 44 homers

Dale Murphy, 1989: .228/.306/.361

Ages 31-33

Posted 06/02  at  03:17 PM
J.W. said...

Also there’s this to consider. Simmons is lobbing a pretty severe accusation at David Ortiz based solely on WHERE HE WAS BORN and WHO HE ASSOCIATES WITH. I bet a lot of us would be pretty darn hot under the collar if we were accused of unethical deeds simply because of where we’re from and who we’re friends with. I’m stopping well short of saying Simmons’ accusation is border-line racist, but it certainly seems irresponsible,

Posted 06/02  at  03:18 PM
J.W. said...

Thanks for filling in an example for me Craig. I’ve always wished that I had: A) a greater amount of historical knowledge about the game and its players, B) greater skill at naviagating baseball-reference. Hey, maybe if I work on the latter, I’ll fix the former! Now pardon me, I have to go introduce a couple birds to a stone I know…

Posted 06/02  at  03:22 PM
Wade said...

Here come the theories.  Some lucky so-and-so is gonna guess it correctly, and they’ll be lauded as the next guru. Hindsight’ll kick in once Ortiz’s true achilles heel has been exposed, and most of the flacks will have ‘seen it coming’.  Until then, we’re all invited to the speculation party, and evidently everyone wants up on the dance floor.

Andruw Jones was nigh written of by everyone after he took a colossal dump in LA.  And here he is stroking it okay in Texas.

Nice article by Simmons though.  I’ll go with age until something better comes along…

Happy Tuesday everybody.

Posted 06/02  at  03:25 PM
Craig Calcaterra said...

That one wasn’t really from skill, J.W. I just happened to have lived through it as a Braves fan (I’m old), so I kinda know what Sox fans are going through with Papi.

Posted 06/02  at  03:25 PM
Wooden U Lykteneau said...

J.W., reality. Reality, J.W. Hope you two meet again soon.

Posted 06/02  at  03:26 PM
Jack said...

Murphy also managed to bang out 20 home runs in 1989 and 24 in 1990. He was still a league average offensive player (if you go by OPS) for 3 years after his insane 87. Ortiz’s decline has been much more dramatic. He’s gone from MVP candidate to black hole. 

And of course Murphy’s stats in 87 likely got a little boost from whatever was causing balls to fly out of parks that year…

Posted 06/02  at  03:32 PM
Jeff Berardi said...

Ah, classic Bill Simmons, aka making stuff up for no good reason, other than ESPN apparently prints licenses for that. Seriously, the guy’s whole career is based on “well, I don’t have any hard evidence for this whatsoever, but doesn’t it make sense that [xyz]. And my dad and this one guy I used to drink beer and watch Sox games with in college totally agree we me, so it must be true!”. As other readers have pointed out, 33 is plenty old for a hefty slugger to fall off the face of the earth. No age-based conspiracy theories required here.

Posted 06/02  at  03:46 PM
J.W. said...

Wooden U Lyketeneau—

I think I get the gist of what you’re saying, and points for the snappy one-liner, but, to be clear, are you saying that I’m being naive in thinking that David Ortiz isn’t lying about his age? If so, then it’s more than possible that you’re right. On the other hand, As Craig pointed out with the Dale Murphy example, such a sudden decline at age 33 isn’t unprecedented, so why assume that Ortiz is lying about his age? Because he’s Dominican? That doesn’t seem quite fair to me. Because he’s “friends” with Miguel Tejada? I have friends who have cheated on their girlfriends, does that make me a cheater? I appreciate that you disagree with my view, I’d just appreciate it more if you explained your reasoning, rather than just introducing me to reality.

Posted 06/02  at  03:47 PM
MooseinOhio said...

JW - I actually think Simmons’ was trying to ‘protect’ Ortiz by making an argument for something other than steroids, an issue that has disproportionately affected players from the DR, though he may have used another loaded rationale.  As one who has a strong radar for issues related to race and ethnicity I did not pick up on what you are sensing. 

I do think that MLB needs to dig deeper into the issues associated with why so many Latin, specifically Domincan, players are getting busted with the PEDs test.  Combine that with the whole signing bonus shannigans (i.e. paybacks), drafting of underage players (by our standard) and baseball academies that may exploit more than they benefit and I think MLB doesn’t pass the smell test. 

However that is a discussion for another day.  As for Simmons - I think he deserves a pass on this one.

Posted 06/02  at  03:52 PM
J.W. said...

MooseinOhio—

I hate filling up the comments section like this, but I just wanted to say that know that you mention it, I think you’re right. Simmons does seem to be looking to provide cover for Ortiz, and if there are any lurking issues about race and ethnicity, they’re pretty far submerged and I highly doubt that Simmons meant it in any negative way. As you say, he deserves a pass on this one.

Posted 06/02  at  03:57 PM
Kevin S. said...

The other thing is, he’s not completely basing it on the fact that Big Pop-up is Dominican.  He points to the fact that the Sox were at least concerned about the veracity of his age before acquiring him, and he does acknowledge that Bill James went and Bill Jamesed the numbers and concluded his career arc was consistent with a player of his stated age.

Posted 06/02  at  04:07 PM
Wooden U. Lykteneau said...

Craig and Moose have already done most of my legwork, but the REALITY is that Dominican players are not subject to the MLB draft, and the REALITY is that this gives Dominican (and other countries to which the First-Year Draft does not apply) players a very strong incentive to do whatever they believe is necessary to get signed, whether it’s lying about their age, taking PEDs, pimping themselves to buscones, etc.

Thus, Simmons making the connection (read: suggesting) to a player with an incentive to lie (Ortiz) to a player that HAS lied (Tejada) with the exact same incentive to lie is not irresponsible, it’s logical. That’s REALITY.

Posted 06/02  at  04:27 PM
Bon said...

For those taking notes at home, one can discern what is real from what is fantasy by the amount of capitalization used to relate the information.

Posted 06/02  at  04:44 PM
Wooden U. Lykteneau said...

It’s in lieu speaking loudly and slowly, Bon, but thanks…

Posted 06/02  at  04:46 PM
Jason B said...

*Peers through binoculars*

I think that’s Vlad Guerrero, swan-diving on the cliff right next to Papi.  Although he’s been coasting downhill on a less precipitous decline for a couple of years now.

Different skill sets in their primes, for sure.  But both have now fallen from coveted middle-of-the-lineup bats to…something much, much less.

Looking on down the road, you would expect that Ryan Howard and Prince Fielder may go cliff-diving rather than soft-landing in their later years.

Posted 06/02  at  04:46 PM
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