I disagree.  Without passing judgment on whether the establishment’s actions were demeaning in truth, he essentially took millions for doing nothing, and he has been irrelevant ever since.

I randomly decided to listen to that Lennon album today, Its pretty solid all the way through, and that song “god” that Craig mentions is great and challenging.

There was a discussion about this topic over at LetsGoTribe.com that I’ll link here:

http://www.letsgotribe.com/2008/4/9/391105/return-of-the-cleveland-bl

This is one of the better discussions I’ve seen on here (or any other site) and to tell you the truth as an Clevaland Indians fan, I see valid points being made from multiple sides, which both intrigues and and excites me. I’m not sure where I fall in this debate, and I’m also not sure my individual opinion really matters (change comes from those in charge. A Cleveland Indians’ fan individually isn’t in charge, Cleveland Indians’ fans as a whole are in charge), but I applaud this discussion.

Jim - I think most of the conversation has been about how using the term “racism” is a big part of the problem.  That’s why the Cleveland Frowns guys are doing what they can to put the issue in other terms.  No one is saying that Cleveland fans are racist. 

The willingness to “let go of the past” is at the very heart of the issue.  If we should be willing to let go of the past, then why not change the logo, which is an outdated remnant of the past?  Why does it *have* to be a reference to a racial/ethnic group?

Why don’t we just eliminate all images of American Indians from our entire society and forget they even exist. Wouldn’t that just solve this problem? While we’re at it. Let’s change the names of our landmarks and cities and states that bear American Indian names. That way, no one would be offended anymore.

Or why don’t we just make Chief Wahoo a white guy.

In all seriousness, I fail to see the problem here. The American Indians who are complaining about Wahoo, as well as the guilty whites, see Wahoo and automatically think negative thoughts about American Indians, or so they say.

The folks who like Chief Wahoo see the image and think Omar Vizquel and Bob Feller, and fail to see any racism or have any negative connotation of American Indians. So, what the American Indians and their guilty white partners are afraid of, what they say Wahoo represents and creates: negative image and dehumanizing of American Indians or “that’s real,” isn’t actually occurring, except by them. In other words, its the anti-Wahoo side that is obsessing over race or ethnicity and making distinctions on that basis, not the other way around. That’s racism.

Yes, it’s a caricature. So what? The ones complaining about it are the ones with the racist views, not the other way around. The pro-Wahoo folks see the image and fail to think “American Indians are bad” and people complain about it. People should think this is a positive development.

In any event, is anyone hurt by Chief Wahoo? Does Chief Wahoo deprive anyone of any rights? Does he prevent anyone from getting a job or admission to a school or a government contract? This argument is a waste of time for everybody. Stop being so offended by something that has nothing to do with you and doesn’t injure you in the least. For all that dying to be offended by Chief Wahoo, then get a damn life.

Thanks for the post, Shyster.  Some good comments here.  But to Real American directly above, and to those who think that the Fighting Irish or Minnesota Vikings logos are remotely comparable, consider that those were logos of white people made by white people. 

Real American, Wahoo does deprive someone of rights.  It deprives a race of people of the right to not have a Major League Baseball team emblazoned with a logo intended to cast that race as anachronistic savages.  The symbolism is huge here.  Like some folks have argued above, if the logo were a black ‘sambo’ caricature, or a big nosed jewish caricature, or that of nearly any other nonwhite race, it would be long gone.  The fact that Wahoo still exists is, more than anything, a testament to the political powerlessness of Natives. 

We’re not dying to be offended by things, especially not by baseball logos We’re just embarrassed by the fact that our baseball team/city is the “beneficiary” of native political powerlessness in this way.  If we were Natives, we would at least be depressed by this.  Why should we cling to a logo that makes things at least a little bit harder for another race?  It’s just not worth it. 

Also, we have no problem with the team name “Indians.”  Northeast Ohio has a rich Native tradition.  The logo should reflect that with a dignified representation.  There’s no way that Wahoo could be considered as such.