I like Jobe, Veeck, and the guy that invented the knuckle ball for the hall, but, the last of those three is sorta persona non grata along with the rest of the Black Sox…too bad…hell of a pitcher…

@ Derek

Tilting. At. Windmills.

If that’s how you feel.

My comment was basically directed at Ron who was incinuating that players were basically undeserving of the freedoms to negotiate their compensation in a competitive market because… some of them were motivated chiefly by financial success?

In fact, anybody who works for a living who castigates baseball players for their salaries is, in my estimation, actually tilting at windmills.

The “they’re playing a game” argument is,I believe, the one that grates me most, as it is ridiculous, naive, and self-aggrandizing on virtually every level possible.

No. Actually, I’m a writer for a small website you may have heard of; it’s called The Hardball Times. (Fantasy section, though. I assume you don’t make your way to that side of the site, but that’s nothing I would hold against you. I just found it kinda funny you asked where I came from)

Anyway,

But as I said, Miller made things better for the players. Many of whom don’t care about the game or the fans (you know, the people who make it all possible). What they care about it cashing a paycheck. Some of them were more interested in what thier playoff money was than actually winning.

...someone still has to explain to me how Miller made the “GAME” better. Because in my opinion, he didn’t. And that’s what the Hall should be for.

There’s no logical reason to include anything in you first paragraph after the first sentence if that you are not implying what I noted. In fact, I’d assert my intepretation is the only reasonable interpretation of that paragraph. So, if that’s not your contention, the error lies in your communication not in my comprehension.

And, as to the second para, do you not see a connection between the players and the game?

In fact, the players ARE the game. You imply, in your first para, that the fans are the game. That’s actually 180 degrees off. The players are what make it a game; without them there is no game. The fans, on the other hand, make it a business. By the way, that’s why the players aren’t just “playing a game,” but producing what is the product on which multi-billion dollar industries are based.

It has already been pointed out that were the players to not have these freedoms, they wouldn’t be playing baseball. Hence, the game would clearly be suffering.

I’ve read all your comments, Ron. I quoted half your post. Cherrypicking? What other context was missing. Are you lamenting the I omitted your contention that sliding pads are more important to the game the repeal of the reserve clause? Because, that clearly strenghens your argument…

Opinions are not right or wrong (though some are more “valid” than others, but that’s something of a semantic debate). Marvin Miller should not be/does not desrve to be in the Hall of Fame is an opinion, and I can’t say that opinion is wrong, I guess. ...That is, of course, provided you’d stick to the same belief if I advanced the “opinion” that Willie Mays doesn’t deserve to be in the HOF.

But, what I can say, that is a little more objective is that your opinion is predicated on some profound misunderstandings between how the business aspect of the institution is related to the game and to the players, and how the changing dynamics of one impact the others. Also, you seem to be unable to disassociate Marvin Miller the salaries of today’s superstars. That’s, I dunno, like blaming Otto Hahn for Hiroshima.

But don’t take my word for you being off base, read the comments of everybody else who reacted to your statement.

The last word is yours.